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podcasts Nov 15, 2022

Every Monday at 9 PM exclusively on Twitter, Tiffany hosts a Space called FinNoir: A Space for Black Money Talk. This Space features a variety of black voices in personal finance to give their perspectives, information, and thoughts on money topics that affect the black community.

This session discusses whether being black is synonymous with struggle and why. 

Hosts: Tiffany Grant & Rahkim Sabree

Speakers: Markia Brown, Steven StackCamari Ellis, Nia Adams, Jonathan Thomas, Renita Young, Tamika Howell



Twitter Spaces Replay 11/7

[00:00:00] Intro/Outro: You know what it is? That's right. It's time to talk money. With your money nerd and financial coach. Now tighten those purse strings and open those ears. It's the Money. Talk with Tiff podcast.

[00:00:18] Tiffany Grant: Hello? Hello.

[00:00:20] Markia Brown: Hey, girl. Hey.

[00:00:22] Tiffany Grant: Mm-hmm. . How are you?

[00:00:23] Markia Brown: Good. How you doing? How you feeling?

[00:00:27] Tiffany Grant: I'm doing pretty good, Pretty good. Today was super productive, so

[00:00:33] Markia Brown: I just wish it was Friday all over again.

[00:00:35] Tiffany Grant: Well, let's say last Friday again. I'm like, don't rush it, .

[00:00:41] Markia Brown: I'm just ready to get through the holidays, honestly. .

[00:00:46] Tiffany Grant: Yeah. Time is flying though. I don't believe it's already nothing.

[00:00:50] Markia Brown: I know.

[00:00:52] Rahkim Sabree: What up? What up? Hey, hey, hey. Hello. I don't believe that it is as warm as it is normal.

[00:00:59] Markia Brown: Oh my God. I, I was sweating today.

Bus stop day and I usually gotta wear a hoodie with my jacket. Like I have a BA jacket, I wear over top my hoodie and I stepped outside and I was like, Ooh. You know how you make that face cause you about to sweat.

[00:01:13] Rahkim Sabree: Oh, I was so irritated. I was sweated today. I got out the shower and I could not stop sweating.

I was like, nah, ain't no way. I thought there was something wrong with

[00:01:24] Markia Brown: me. It is something wrong. It's

that's wrong. The polar bears aint like

no more. That's not .

[00:01:34] Tiffany Grant: But yeah, it was hot today. I think it got up to 80 here in

North Carolina.

[00:01:39] Markia Brown: I'm a little bit north from you, so Yeah, that was about the same here

in November.

in November. All right, let me figure out where everybody else is so we can get started on time. So we can end on time. .

Let's see. How was your day, Rocky?

[00:02:01] Rahkim Sabree: It was a good day. It was very productive. I actually Tiffany and I got to record for my new podcast, so that's how I started my day. Yeah. And and then I posted on Twitter about, people who might be interested and I did not expect to get the turnout that I did. Like people were commenting all day like, Oh, I wanna be on it.

Oh, I

[00:02:23] Markia Brown: wanna be on it. Sir, you already verified Twitter account. I know. You didn't not think somebody was gonna be like, Bro, put me on

[00:02:28] Rahkim Sabree: I was thinking about that cuz Tiffany and I were talking about, the evolution of my brand because she's, she's seen it evolve and I didn't realize this Tiff when we were talking earlier, I a baked thin audience already. It doesn't matter what I do, Like people already know me.

And especially with this verification, people probably Oh yeah let me get on that. So I thought it was gonna be hard cause we were looking at the podcast stats. I thought it was gonna be difficult to to get downloads and streams. But now I'm like, All right I'm

[00:02:56] Markia Brown: out the gate with this.

The hardest part is starting, the hardest part with anything is starting and you cross that hurdle. So shit, smooth sailing from here, That's a fact.

[00:03:08] Tiffany Grant: And staying consistent. Let me add that cause that's the hard part too, but it's so very, I.

All right y'all. I would hate to get started without the person who said they wanted to do this

I'm like, the people that suggest should be the first people here But we gonna go ahead and get started cuz it's already 9 0 5 and I wanna be respectful of everybody else's time. Everybody. Welcome to Finn Nuwar. This is a space for black money talk. So we just dive into multiple different topics and we start off with a topic, but usually adventures in many different ways.

So we just let the spirit move us however it flows. But we're here to talk about money as it relates to our community. My name is Tiffany Grant and I am the owner and host of Money Talk with t, who's a financial education platform. It's a blog, it's a podcast, it's social media presence, and all I'm trying to do is educate our community on ways that they can use their money better.


[00:04:12] Rahkim Sabree: Rake here, I cover financial trauma and financial empowerment for people who look like me. And I'm also the new host of the Overcoming Financial Trauma Podcast, where I talk about all things financial trauma and how to overcome

[00:04:25] Linda: them. Come on. New host. No, I'm just kidding. . All right, Mark,

[00:04:31] Markia Brown: you have to upgrade your TikTok intro now.

you gonna have to add that one there, but what's up everybody? My name's Markia. I am a certified financial education instructor. I'm known as the money plug here on social media and on TikTok, and I've grown an audience of over 200,000 followers teaching people all about the intricacies of credit and why you need to think about it just as much as you think about your regular clash flow.

So I love being

[00:05:00] Tiffany Grant: here on Mondays. Yes. Yes. This is definitely a dope space. And Linda,

Okay, nevermind. Mia .

[00:05:09] Nia Adams: Hi, I'm Mia, personal finance educator. I drop home buying and money tips for women seeking financial stability.

[00:05:17] Tiffany Grant: Sure. And sweet. I'm like, I need to get my mind down. Thanks to Raki

Yes, yes. And I'm gonna invite one more person up for now. All right. Got my purposeful economics economist. No worries.

[00:05:32] Dr. Malcolm Adams: Dr. Malcolm Adams, Purposeful economist. I talk about economics from behavioral to political to business and black money. .

[00:05:46] Tiffany Grant: Yes. Yes. Thank you for joining us tonight. So me and Dr.

Adams, we like nerd out on a bunch of different things, so I'm glad that he's here cuz you haven't been able to get a preview of what the topic is. But when I say it, you're gonna be like, Ooh, okay. I came to the right one. But before I get there, cause I have to leave y'all on a cliff hanger. I see Kaari just popped in, so I wanna give him an opportunity to introduce himself as well.

Kaari .

[00:06:15] Camari Ellis: I, I'll be right on folks. Gimme one second.

[00:06:18] Tiffany Grant: Okay, No problem.

[00:06:21] Markia Brown: Hold, tell y'all that. Let me tell y'all that. I am so glad I talk to y'all every day. So last week I did the I got to speak at the N CUA event. They did an annual summit and it was a packed room, first of all. So let me tell y'all how I was on stage shaking like a booty at Mar Gras with all them people staring me in my face and asking me all these questions.

But, and I was so glad she asked it because I didn't know how I was gonna slide it in there. This one lady stood up and she was like now that we following you, what are some other personal finance content creators that I can follow? When I tell you I was going through I was trying to, I was so mad I didn't have it ready like screenshot already.

I was going through all of y'all ads on Twitter, like mentally trying to remember everybody. Like man, I, that was like, that was the moment, like before I went and was speaking. I was texting in our little group chat that we. And I told Rakim like, All right, I'm gonna mention you to the credit unions.

And I was like, Whoever else got something to put out, let me know. So a couple people hit me up, but it was so cool to have that opening and to be able to highlight. I even talked about the Twitter space, so that was really cool. And I actually talked to a lot of people after the fact about why we use Twitter spaces and stuff like that.

So it was really cool, to see their interest in why we created these safe spaces for ourselves to talk about black money every week and how well it's been helping people and even us as creators create better content and hold ourselves more accountable for what we're posting. So I definitely just wanted to let y'all know that I definitely had to shout out the crew last week.

[00:07:56] Linda: Aw, thank you. While you were shaking in your mar gra . And I wanna go back to Linda cuz I think she's ready now. So Linda, you wanna introduce yourself? Hi everyone, my name is Linda, aka she motivates. I am a motivational speaker and realtor and new author and I teach women how to change their lives to the renewal of their mindset.

Awesome. Awesome. And last but not least, Kaari, are you ready?

[00:08:23] Camari Ellis: Yes ma'am.


A financial advisor, overall money nerd and the overall lover of black folks. That's about it. And tonight we are talking about is it's anonymous to be black with being a struggle.

[00:08:40] Tiffany Grant: Yes. So did I say that? I didn't say that right? No, but I'll do it. . I'm sorry. You tried though. You attempted, right?

[00:08:49] Camari Ellis: Yeah, I've been busy, so I'm a little scatter brain right now.

So lemme take a breath, .

[00:08:55] Tiffany Grant: You're fine. You're fine. So the topic, kaari kind of hinted at it. The topic for tonight is being black synonymous with struggle? And if so, why is it like that? Why is why is it? And so I feel like a lot of us have a lot to talk about around that topic. And this came about as a offshoot from last week's topic.

And we were like, this would be a. Con conversation to have just as a continuation pretty much of last week. So with that being said, the person that wanted to do this topic, they're not here today. Usually I go with the person that suggested first. But would anyone like to start us off with this conversation?


[00:09:38] Rahkim Sabree: start. And because, I had primed the conversation this morning as we were talking, but the area that I focus on is financial trauma and oftentimes I will make reference to the generational trauma of black Americans in this country, starting with slavery, going through Jim Crow, and then even through present day.

And a lot of that is, it's a mouthful. It's easy for me to spit out because I talk about it all the time. But a lot of that is It's a lot to unpack and there's a lot of pain in that. There's a lot of struggle in that. And through that pain and struggle, I think there have been manifestations financially in poverty.

And that is, I don't wanna say the dominant narrative, but a pretty dominant narrative when it comes to, when you think about black people and money, but it's not the only narrative. And shameless plug, episode one of my new podcast, Overcoming Financial Trauma, me and Asia Evans, who is a licensed mental health counselor.

And financial therapists were talking about how our upbringings were so different. She had an upbringing, upbringing that was one of privilege, whereas my upbringing was one of poverty and how we both landed in the same space as people who were passionate about financial trauma, financial therapy, financial psychology, and that contrast is needed for us to demonstrate what is the spectrum of representation in this space.

Generally as financial educators and content creators, but more specifically in the financial therapy space. It's a resonating conversation and I think that unfortunately I can't lend to the other side of what that equation looks like. At least from like a story based background.

Kind of perspective, but I think as we pull back the layers of this conversation, what I'm looking for in, in terms of you guys' engagement, is that point of change where you navigate from maybe poverty or an experience with poverty into an experience that kind of separates you from your peers, and what does that do for you and them psychologically?

[00:12:01] Tiffany Grant: Yeah, I definitely Can agree with you there and resonate. It's like we all have different backgrounds, which we hit on like in our, I think it was like our second space that we did when we were talking about, what entrepreneurship and stuff looked like for us as we were growing up and just realizing that the black experience can look like so many different things, but as far as society is concerned, it's usually lumped into one or two gen like generalizations.

And that's why I think this conversation is important to have Kaari.

[00:12:39] Camari Ellis: Yes, this is a great topic from so many reasons. And it depends on which, which view you look at it from. But I'm a go from the historic lens. So ever since black people arrived on these shores, we have been fighting. We've been struggling.

Even if you look at the entire African or black diaspora we all have been fighting or struggling in one way, shape, form, or fashion. But it also is a bit nuanced because when you say, Is it synonymous, is black synonymous, we struggling? Struggling? Words are very important and I don't wanna, I don't wanna play around and say, yes, just cause you're black, you're struggling.

But when we look at it from the macro landscape and we look at, we have to continue to, for our rights we have to continue to look at disenfranchisement economically, politically even with things like Roe versus Roe versus Wade being turned around, that's gonna impact a lot of black families.

In this context from just an overall historic, political and economic standpoint? I would say yes. To be black is the struggle in this country.

[00:13:51] Tiffany Grant: Gotcha. Gotcha. Does anyone else have any comments around our topic before we dig deeper?

[00:14:00] Markia Brown: I do. So I've had the pleasure of being black in more than just America. And I lived in Europe for a while and don't laugh at me . And I had, I gotta live in Europe. And it's really crazy how uniquely American this conversation actually is.

To be honest, the answer is yes, Yes to struggle like black and struggle is synonymous. In America. And it's so crazy because, obviously we grew up here, a lot of us don't leave here. So this is all we know. But social media and the media in general, they will push the idea and the notion that, struggle like black is to struggle, is struggle is to everything else.

And I'm sorry I said that wrong. I said that wrong. Y'all get what I'm trying to say. But for example, if you ask like somebody to describe like, what's it like you don't want, they'll be like, oh, five and six kids and five and six baby daddies. And like they get, that's here it is equivalent of like when you go to shake a white person hand and they'd be like, What's up homeboy?

And they try to give you that, right? You see how they try to like, y'all get that feeling. I'm trying to talk about like how, like they're talking about you like I'm not fucking stupid. I know you did that because I'm black. So a lot of times when people, when they describe the struggle or the life that they don't wanna live as a because it's a struggle, it's very uniquely the black experience.

And this is something that I only experienced here when I was in Europe and they taught, We, you see obviously homeless people and struggle and things like that. It's not a black problem. It's not if they don't blame black people for any of the issues that they have, they don't thrust a camera in black people's faces every time there's a problem in the black community or something you get what I'm trying to say.

So it's it's really funny how different it is. It's a huge culture shock too, how different it is between here and other places. But here in America, a thousand percent society pushes the idea that struggling is a black thing. Struggling is it's not that nobody else can struggle, but it's just that when the ideal or the picture that comes up in the dictionary right when you search Struggle for America is black people.

That's what I'm trying to

[00:16:12] Tiffany Grant: say. No, I completely understand where you're coming from and I blame media , but the most part because at the end of the day, like you said, this is what's being programmed. This is what's being pushed down our throat. Really the actuality of it is that we actually have a lot of wealth.

It is just that this is what's being fed to us. Rakin, Yeah,

[00:16:37] Rahkim Sabree: I think it's interesting that Markia brought in the international variable. Cause I've traveled to probably six or seven different countries and most of my travel has been. in the Caribbean. So spending time with a lot of people that look like me.

And when I heard you say that something like a flip, a switch rather flipped in my head that I think it's important for us to qualify how we define struggle. And so when we look at struggle in the black experience, I think that there's definitely ties into economic power or capitalism, excuse me, in the way that it's practiced here in the United States versus around the world because what would be considered struggle here might be considered commonplace in a place like the Dominican Republic or in antique.

And and so I think our struggle is certainly multifaceted in that, to Kaaris point, there is the overcoming of obstacles historically that continue to surface today. But there's also a value placed on a certain lifestyle that may or may not exist outside of, the borders of the United States.

So marque, I just think that that's a really good point for you to mention our experience with struggle and certainly multifaceted from a historical lens, from an economic lens, from a perception or a perceptive lens when it comes to media and what it is that we embrace around what our lives should look like or could look like in comparison to non-black peers.

[00:18:29] Tiffany Grant: Yes. Thank you for adding that. And I'm gonna just add on real quick that I agree. After going to Jamaica earlier this year, I'm like, I'm ready to be out. Bye y'all, , I'll do these spaces from Jamaica. Cause it's just a beautiful thing when you are around just your people. And I was just surprised how down there, how there's so many entrepreneurs.

It's just so much black excellence just hanging out down there. People have their own businesses and stuff, and you know what? Us under us standards, some of them would be struggling, but to me, I saw it from their lens and they're

[00:19:08] Linda: like,

[00:19:08] Tiffany Grant: this is a good way to make money for ourselves. So anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there, that I'll probably be moving soon.

All right, Mia. So I wanna echo

[00:19:19] Nia Adams: a few things that were said. I'm actually an avid traveler. I've, I don't know how many countries I've been to, but I usually, when I travel, I stay around the local. So I'm an Airbnb. I'm not staying in a resort, I'm staying in a local neighborhood. And yes, they're happy , they're content they're living good, they're peaceful, they're not stressed, they're not looking behind their backs, , you know what I'm saying?

It's a completely different atmosphere. I'm actually planning to move out of the country as well. So I'm with that. And, but I wanted to ask, has anybody seen any of the international commercials about America? Because I definitely feel like it's an American thing. If you see some of the commercials that are out about America, America is a struggle.

Bus to other countries. Some of the commercials, remember how you used to have the commercials, we were younger, that were like, with 20 cents a day, you can feed. They have commercials like that about America because we have so many homeless people, like in other countries in Europe and other I think one was in, one was Europe.

I don't remember what the other country was, but I've seen multiple commercials like that. So I definitely think it's American thing. I definitely think, I agree it's related to financial, but it's just so many different obstacles that it's a struggle to get up. So it's mostly faceted. Absolutely.

But it's based on what you consider struggling.

[00:20:43] Tiffany Grant: Yes, I definitely agree with that for sure. Cuz it's all relative. And then Kaari Go ahead.

[00:20:50] Camari Ellis: So I kinda wanted to ask the same thing. How do we anchor this conversation? Because, are we coming from a more individualistic standpoint or are we looking at it from a group standpoint because they're gonna be different a lot of times.

Cause when I'm talking about it, I'm talking about it more from a group standpoint. Even when I look around the globe, Ghana's still having problems with the Chinese South Africans. Black South Africans gotta be correct when saying that are still having problems with major disparities over there with land ownership and and jobs and other things.

But yes, there are people who are quite abundantly. There, there's other issues in various other places around the globe. I know UK is still having problems with Brexit and some black or brown people are being mistreated there. So I guess what way are we looking at struggle from, Is it more from a day to day standpoint or is more from, for example, everybody in here is black from America, born in America.

What better? We took a survey. Many of us feel like we're not being treated as your average everyday American, almost like we're second class citizens. So again which way we looking at this?

[00:22:11] Rahkim Sabree: Kamara, I think we can look at it whichever way it's interpreted in this conversation anyway. Certainly I think, Steven Stack was the person that initiated this topic and Steven self identifies as a millionaire, 31 years old, he made his first million dollars.

He tells the story and I think, knowing Steven that maybe his intent in surfacing this topic and internally, I don't wanna speak for him, but I wish he was here to speak for himself. He wanted to talk about the other side of what the experience was less the struggle.

And from that lens, I think maybe he was talking about it from an individual perspective, but I'm liking the way that this conversation is taking shape, so I would wanna, Let it exist without guard rails and whoever interprets it, however they interpret it, can answer or provide feedback around what that looks like for them.

[00:23:08] Camari Ellis: I'm cool with that. I just wanted to make sure. And

there's also a mindset a lot of times that when you feel that you're disenfranchised, you kinda on and you don't necessarily do the, you can do, you don't, You can do the, so its,

and then.

[00:23:34] Markia Brown: Those commercials that NE was talking about are real. Y'all gotta see if y'all can find them online, but this

was one of the first, I try to find some, drop

them in the chat. This was one of the first things I thought of when we started the conversation tonight and why I said in other places you don't see how America, you know how America like front loads black people for every struggle or and it's like little things like in commercials that talk about families.

It's always the black family that only has a mom or like in TV shows where they're talking about crime, it's always the black neighborhoods, the guys all, black guys always black, like that sort of thing. Little stuff like that. But in other they don't do that. They do that with the white people of America.

Like it was a commercial. I think my first time ever seeing this I was, we had stayed out in town in Germany and it was a commercial about how fat Americans were, and it was just nothing but McDonald's and like super size and then you see fat people and they shirts don't fit and all this other stuff, but none of them was black.

Nobody in the commercial was black. I think that was the one time I never complained about something like that. But it's just so crazy to me how we are like, like RA said, we're programmed in a sense to believe that, to be, to struggle is a black thing. That's a, even though we struggling, we not struggling as bad as black people.

Black was always put down as like the bottom of the bottom, the worst or the worst. But then I also like the fact that Kamar asked that question because Kamar. Man, he contagious. Like he'll say stuff and it just sparks bigger conversations and makes, it, makes you wanna bring the stuff.

So he had history B, every conversation you ever had with Kaari in life, he gonna bring up something that happened well before any of us was fucking born. And so also keep up in conversations with him. Now he has me reading like all of these older books now I've started rereading the Miseducation of the Negro and re rereading a lot of these old history books.

And it, I have to keep telling myself like, Black history didn't just start at slavery. So in order to have this conversation now, especially if you're gonna talk about how the trans-Atlantic slave trade plays a part in why we think struggle and blackness is, synonymous. We also have to talk about the history before that.

Meaning we have to go broader and look outside of just America. Cause some of us aren't from here. And so that generational trauma and things that we've passed down over the years, all of that stuff kind of ties into what we're talking about now. So I do love that you asked that question, but I really loved the answer that Rod gave about.

It depends on who you're talking to.

[00:26:06] Tiffany Grant: Yes, thank you Markia. And you got me dying, laughing over here, . But I wanna go to Linda and then I'll say my 2 cents on.

[00:26:17] Linda: All right. I wanted to piggyback on something that Markia said where she said that, it's often assumed that every black woman is a single mom.

And I don't know for you moms in here. I'm a single co-parenting mom. My ex-husband and I co-parent very well with our sons, and it's always assumed by his teachers that I'm single until I pop up to a parent-teacher conference with my ex-husband. And there's always like this shocked face every single year we go through it.

They always just assume because I'm the parent that's usually emailing. And although he's CC'd on the emails, they never realized that it's actually two parents parenting my boys. And it's actually, it's disheartening. I was just talking about it this morning with a friend of mines. I said, I feel like.

Even though I co-parent very effectively with my ex-husband, I feel like I always have to make sure I say my son's father and I, my son's father and I every time, or I have to make sure I email the teacher back from my business email so that she doesn't assume that I'm just some low life bum mom that is, doesn't have any education, any form of education.

So Markia said something that really touched me because I said to myself, I feel like it's a struggle being black, and I feel like it's a struggle being a black woman. And although I love my blackness, don't get me wrong, I love all things black, especially my black brothers. But sometimes I'm like, My God, when is it gonna change for us?

Why do I always have to step out the house like on Def defense mode all the time? Especially for my sons, especially for them, I have to continuously say, Oh yeah, my ex-husband and I, or my kid's father. And I always put that so that people don't just assume, Okay, she's another single mother raising her boys in a single family household, and they treat me differently.

Believe it or not, when my ex-husband pops up, whenever my ex-husband pops up at a parent teacher conference, if he's there, the tone is different. If I'm there alone, it's a whole different feel. I don't know if any of you other parents felt, feel that, but that's how I always feel.

[00:28:35] Tiffany Grant: That's interesting. I'll go to Mia Markia.

Cause now I'm like, I wanna kind of dive into this a little bit more.

[00:28:42] Nia Adams: But Nia. So I am, I'm a single parent. My daughter is now 21. But while she was growing up, I experienced this a lot. So whenever she did anything in school or had any type of problem in school, when I was called to the school, it was automatically assumed that I was ignorant and that I was the problem or I was the reason why.

And then, if you all know me, I'm very strategic and a big planner. So once they actually start to talk to me and have a conversation with me, they would see, Oh, she's just being a child. Or they would be like, oh, like kinda shocked or surprised that we had so much structure in our household.

So I completely agree with Linda. It is automatically assumed, or even when I would go look for apartments, they would assume I didn't know who her father was just based on the questioning and comments that I would receive. So it is automatically assumed that it's like, Oh she doesn't have anybody and this, this.

That's what you experience and what you go through. So you do feel like you're. I didn't feel like I had to fight the narrative, but I still did feel like I had to be on guard at certain times. Dodging bullets, throughout our life

[00:29:44] Linda: essentially. This is so very interesting to me cuz my experience is completely different, but that's why I'm, I love when we have spaces like this to talk about it.

Markia, you wanna go? So

[00:29:59] Markia Brown: I go through that and y'all know I'm married like my husband. We trying to live in my skin. We always together, but I still get that assumption a lot. But something that I get even more than that. . Y'all know I got five kids. I tell anybody who will listen all about, I got a thousand kids.

Thank God I love all my children. But the first thing out people mouth or like they'll start to say it and stop or they'll clean it up, is they'll always go to ask me, Are they all by the same? They got the same problem. Like you'll be surprised how many people asked me that. I knew you was about to say that.

And it's crazy cause first of all, how fucking dare you ? I don't remember your mama and you having the same last name. And I just think it's so crazy because John and Kate got a TV show when they had eight kids and I thought mom had a TV show and all them people in the Amish country with they 24 fucking kids.

It was, Oh my God, look at this beautiful thing. But I got five kids that I take care of all, we take care of our children together, we serve our country. Like we are the typical fucking picture of the American Dream, bro. And they looking at me, like I said, I'm one more trying to find out who their dad is.

[00:31:10] Tiffany Grant: That's crazy. Okay, so I'll give my perspective real quick and then we'll hop to Kamari. As far as being a single mom, so I've been a single mom for forever, and I've, I can't say that I've experienced these things and I don't know if maybe I'm just not looking for it or maybe I'm just like passing it.

I don't know. But I can't say that I've experienced some of these things that were talked about and I've been a single mom. Quite some time. So that's why I'm like, this is very interesting. And I guess also maybe if people did have that idea, they never said anything to me. Like when Markia said, somebody asked Do they have the same dads?

Nobody has ever said that to me, and my kids have different dads, so I'm just like, I don't know. That is just very interesting. So I'm glad that we're having this conversation because it puts things into, per into perspective, how even being a single mom can look completely different and the different struggles that we could potentially have as single moms.

It's just very interesting to see what other people experience as well. So I just wanted to put that out there. I guess I had a different experience and I'm grateful, but it's, that's just crazy. Like some of the stuff y'all should have seen my face. I'm like, what? Huh? What ? So anyway, Kaari.

[00:32:33] Camari Ellis: So since we talking about single moms, let's talk about single dad for a minute.

I was a single dad for a while and I used to get interrogated as well. And it's like, where's the mother? Why are you always here? Why is, why doesn't the mother become the parent child meeting? And it would become very, very awkward at times. So I guess anytime you are different than the norm, people tend to judge you, and so it gets a little.

[00:33:01] Tiffany Grant: Very interesting. Yes, single dads do matter too. . But that's very, very interesting and I'm glad we brought this up even though it's a different topic. But I'm glad that we brought it up to talk about it cuz it is very interesting. I guess I feel like nobody Bet not, I'm kidding.

bet not saying that to me. No. Maybe I just walk around with that demeanor, so they never do. But it's it it's blowing my mind. Where and I guess also, even if they do just right, y'all, at the end of the day, they that's our lives. Who? Whose business is it anyway? Like I guess that's, you know how, that's how I think about it.

So if somebody was to ask me something inappropriate, like some of the stuff that y'all just said that would be my approach. Is it your business? ? But anyway. Agreed. Yeah. And I saw Steven just popped in, said, Hey, Steven, the man of the hour,

if you can talk,

[00:34:00] Markia Brown: he probably

on, y'all know,

[00:34:02] Steven Stack: I was trying to get mute. Can y'all hear me

[00:34:05] Tiffany Grant: okay? Yeah, we can hear you out walking the middle of nowhere.

[00:34:09] Steven Stack: Right, right, right, right. , right, right. Yeah. I was trying to get, I was trying to get the hardcore stuff done so I would be able to get in on this Twitter space without huffing and puffing.

[00:34:24] Tiffany Grant: Gotcha. So we we've had quite a bit of conversation around it, but I wanted to ask you, because, you brought up this as a topic and Rakim kind of tried to speak for you earlier, but he said, I really don't wanna speak for you, .

When you brought

this up as a topic, what type of,

[00:34:45] Rahkim Sabree: you can't do that without giving him the context of how

[00:34:50] Tiffany Grant: look, we're already at 40

Were .


really the context was Kamari X. Are we looking at this from a macro lens? So like all black people, are we looking at this from an individual experience lens? And so what would be your answer to that?

[00:35:11] Steven Stack: Yeah, so I when I initially said the statement it was more so from a, from an individual lens that that the black experience is not synonymous with struggle.

That we have to, that we have to have room and space for that. Hey, not everybody is out here eating struggle sandwiches. You know what I mean? Mayo ketchup and mustard sandwiches. You know what I mean? It's okay if you could afford to meet to go with it. Especially because we want to win or see as many, or at least I would hope that we want to see as many of our people.

When, particularly financially, but just in general in life. And so I'm like, Man, we'll talk about generational wealth. Generational wealth which I'm huge on, but then down someone who's experiencing it or positioning their children to have said generational wealth and be like, Oh man

are they

really black?

You know what I mean? If they didn't go through X, Y, and Z or if they grew up in an environment to where they seemingly don't have the edge in their voice because of the experiences that they didn't have. And I'm like, Man, I've talked to people who've lived the street life.


no one who's really living it

wants to live it. Has been my experience in talking to people. They're like, Yo, man, I would love to be doing work where I'm not potentially fearing for my life or potentially being at risk of doing hard time in jail. So I'm like, Man, what are we really talking about?

You know what I mean? Oh man, that person's a trust fund kid. Man, I hope every single person on here either is a trust fund kid or has some trust fund kids. So that's the, that's the energy that I'm on when I was making that statement, is that I don't want it to be abnormal to see plenty of black people.

And of course it's actually not abnormal. That's the crazy part, is it's actually not as abnormal as we. Make it out to be, but I want it to be in a, in such a way that when you see black people that have meaningful wealth, that it's just Oh, that's just a homie Kamari. Oh, that's the money plug Markia.

Oh, yeah. Tiffany got it like that. Rakim a, you know what I mean? He experienced some financial trauma like we all, have experienced. But man, that man, he killing it, he definitely overcame and got a bag for it too. So that's the stuff that I desperately want to see for us. And when there's crazy drama or things like that, the people that we look up to that they don't have to be.

Some of these extreme cases of I, I want it to be more normative for us to have people that we see just in the public square that look like us, that are doing really well, are buttoned up, have their stuff in order, and that doesn't mean, corporate or whatever. Just that they doing well.

So I'll pause there.

[00:38:59] Tiffany Grant: Yes. So thank you, Steven. See, where were you? 45 in Scott. I was kidding. ,

[00:39:04] Steven Stack: Right, right. We're sweating.

[00:39:08] Tiffany Grant: But Rakim did, you did the justice. So he did say he thought that maybe you were thinking from a personal lens. So he did good there. He knows you. So I wanna get into solutions, but before we do that, let's go to Markia.

[00:39:24] Markia Brown: Well, he said that thing about like how they glorify the hood thinker and that mentality, right? I don't know, y'all might not live on TikTok like I do, but couple months ago there was a huge discourse in the black creator community because this guy went viral talking about like, why should he be ashamed?

Because his parents loved him enough to go to college before they had him and make all this money. He grew up in a half million dollar home, had the best education, graduated from an Ivy League school, and like he was going on and on about all the great things that he had and how. Black people make him try to make him believe that because he did not struggle, he's not black enough or he's not good enough for them, and that he's kissing the white man's ass and stuff like that.

And now how he said it was extremely flawed and incredibly disrespectful. I will be a thousand percent honest with you, but he actually had a point. And as somebody who has kids, I was a struggle kid. Like I grew up with my mom working three and four jobs, so I was a home by myself a lot more than I should have been.

With the whole don't answer the door, don't touch the stove conversation, And I told myself when I had kids, I would never absolutely not. If I gotta work 2, 3, 4 jobs and I'm not working the right jobs, my kids come first and the money is, it'll. We'll make do with whatever we get.

And so for me, like I value I, because I value the time so much, I made sure to put more time in with my kids. I grew up on ramen noodles and SpaghettiOs, so I made sure, now I can't cook, but I made sure to marry somebody who know how to cook so that he could provide better meals for my kids, right? Like I'm thinking ahead, like I wanted better for my kids than I had for myself.

And I just think it's so crazy that people will sit here. And glorify not having enough money to eat. So you gotta go out and sell crack or do whatever it is you had to do. Like I'd be listening to some of these rappers, I'm not really into the new age stuff. Now don't get me wrong, I let me some Migos resting peace takeoff.

Like it's just crazy listening to some of these stuff. Cause it's ain't, First of all ain't no way. I would tell people that my mama had me in here with nothing to eat and I had to get out and get it by any means. My momma would kill me. But I also wouldn't want that for my children.

People think it's good to jump they kids into they set when they in this gang life and people think that, they gotta, get, if you ain't getting it on the block as you really getting it. And it's crazy that in 20, the year 2022 right on Beyonce's internet, that's even still a conversation that we have to have that we wanna see our kids struggle because we did.

And it made us tougher people. Come on now. I hope my children never have to be resilient. I hope they never come up against something that they gotta recover from. That's just so crazy to me.

[00:42:01] Tiffany Grant: Yeah, I definitely get that. And as you were talking, what I started thinking about is this is a bigger conversation because really, if you think about it, is it because of how we value ourself as a community?

Do we not think that we're worth having a lot of money or do we think that we don't deserve to have a lot of money? And so I started thinking a little deeper, but we only got 12 minutes. that's a whole nother conversation for another day. But I wanna go to Rockham and then Kaari.

[00:42:34] Markia Brown: Yeah, I'll

[00:42:34] Rahkim Sabree: try to be brief.

My grandfather used to say that a parent's job is to have their children do better than them, and so on and so forth, right? So although I talk a lot about growing up, experiencing aspects of poverty I, I maybe don't do a good enough job talking about. How I was how my upbringing was supplemented with so many other intangible riches that navigating coming out of poverty was not unexpected for the people who planted that within me.

Steve made a point about and marque as well about this whole phenomenon. And marque your point is definitely an extreme version of what this looks like. But it was something that I resonated because when I was a kid, I used to read sophisticated text. I used to read dictionary. And so because of that, my vocabulary and my ability to read critically and think critically was higher than people in my peer group.

And so I would often be told that I was speaking, that I sounded like a white boy, that I was speaking white. I had to go through like this. Rebellious stage in high school to get like street cred and start using, slang and what have you. So I think when you look at culture and just to add this context, my parents were 17 and 18 years old when I was born.

So to add context, we have issue of culture, we have issue of self hate. We have the issue of immature parents raising children. And then, to the points that were made earlier, we have the issue of single parent households. And so you have the imbalance of energies, right? Where maybe there is a dominant female energy or feminine energy in the household, or maybe there is a dominant masculine energy in the household.

Or maybe there's the absence of both. And I want to be clear when I say the dominant feminine or masculine energy can. Manifest itself in the, in basically the man can have the dominant feminine energy and the woman can have the dominant masculine energy. And so how does that shape and influence how the child grows up and what becomes acceptable or what becomes expected?

Like how do they then take that energy or that imbalance of energy and then manifest as an adult? And again, this is a super multifaceted issue. We can't look at it in terms of black and white or extremism, but I think that this conversation is definitely an important one

[00:45:13] Markia Brown: to be.

[00:45:16] Tiffany Grant: Absolutely. And really quick, when you were saying, and I think we've talked about this in another space, but like how people would say, Oh, you're talking white and stuff like that.

Cause I used to read encyclopedias too, and I embraced my nerdy in this, but I thought about the little bill episode when he was getting bullied and he was like, so, so . I guess that's how I was looking at things like, okay, I talk white. So you say first, as a kid I would say, well what does that even mean?

What does that mean to talk white? What are you saying ? So anyway, I just think that is an interesting dynamic as well because also it has really intelligent.


Like you said, you went through a whole rebellious phase and really, why should you even have to do that? But I get it because of the pressures and stuff that people have, you go through and I even look at some of my students, for instance, like I have, I teach freshmen and there's one particular student this semester that's a black male, and he's just rebellious for no reason.

I'm like, I can already see that you're smart, but he'll do things just to get attention or just to make people think he's cool, that type of thing. And I'm like, you are intelligent. And so I'm like, before the semester's over I wanna have a one on one with him. Just to reemphasize that.

It's really unfortunate. And then I've seen a situations like that where, That takes them, to a whole different route and then they end up, hanging with the wrong crowd and getting into trouble and things like that. When they were like on the trajectory to do things differently.

So yeah, I definitely see that. So anyway, Kaari and then Steven, and then we'll wrap up.

[00:47:06] Camari Ellis: Man, I have a lot of thoughts, but I wanted to go back to something Markia said about me. The fact that I'm a history buff and I am, I really am. And one of the reasons I am is You have to kind know where you came from and know where you're going.

And I feel like a lot of people don't understand the nuance and context of conversations, and so they miss out on a whole rich history of things. But I, again, I think it's interesting, again, Markia said that street life has in a lot of ways becomes synonymous with black culture. And we see it in a lot of things.

And it's really sad because a lot of times it doesn't give way for a lot of those really bright, smart kids that are already fighting a lot of the institutional stuff, but they don't get the support and the love and the resources that they need to really fulfill. Intellectual genius power. So I hope that's something that we can overcome soon.

And I'll just say that this one last thing and I know that the content or the intention of which came out, but Stephen was talking about all of us being transf kids, which I would love, but one of the things we always have to be careful about is that sometimes when our kids get these things and they don't understand the value of work, cause there is a value on work, they become entitled.

And I feel all them in this black wealth conversation is everybody wants to give more to their kids than what they had, which is cool, but in my opinion, we shouldn't be trying to give our kids more things than we have, but give them more experiences. More positive experiences than what we have. I think we always had to be on the lookout for that.

And even myself as being honest, like I was having a conversation with my kids and their existence and my existence growing up that is are totally different. I told was my son, my daughter. I was either son, I'm was, You're really privileged now I was privileged in a different way when I was growing up I'm a product of welfare and everything else, but my mother always made me read or always wanted to.

So it was the best of both worlds so to speak. But that's all I got

[00:49:33] Tiffany Grant: now really quick, cuz as you were talking I started thinking a little deeper too. And I agree with you. Like we should give. Kids, more experiences that we didn't have versus things. But also in my head I was thinking like, I wonder if these conversations, if this is even bought up in other households, like not black and brown community.

You get what I'm saying? Cause if you look around, right? And for instance, Elon Musk Donald Trump, people like that, they grew up in privilege and were their parents like, Well we don't wanna make, we don't want you to have as much privilege cuz we want you to be able to, value this stuff and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Is this stuff that. Only say or is this something that like, you get what I'm saying?

[00:50:23] Camari Ellis: Well, the rules

for us are different. Listen I dunno if Elon's listening , but listen, we still deal with rampant police brutality. We still deal with issues or remnants of red lining, right? Donald didn't have to deal with that.

Eli didn't have to deal with that from South Africa and South Africa. So it's different. And I'll, I don't even like to folks to try to be as literally correct as possible without losing the essence of it. Because I believe some of us really are striving to be like the others and we really lose everything that we're really here for and really here to do.

[00:51:05] Tiffany Grant: Yeah, I get that. And I agree, but I'm just like, these conversations does this go back to not thinking that we are worthy enough or value ourself enough to be like, All right, well it's okay if our kids have a privileged lifestyle. You get what I'm saying?

[00:51:26] Camari Ellis: Not real. I think that's real too, right?

Because listen, we don't, we, I know I don't I moved outta certain environments cause I didn't want my kids living there because I do think if you are in a very, very impoverished area, its your think and stifles your creativity. Like a lot of this stuff is really nuanced. But if you are constantly in fear for your life, you don't have time to be creative, that, that's a total privilege.

You don't, it it's. It's not even really possible, even though it has come, right? Because when we look at hiphop, the has changed the whole world and that basically came from impoverished areas. Not great areas. So that just shows that anything is possible, but that's not the ideal. That's not what we wanna have happen.

But Steven's had his hands up for a while, so I don't wanna keep talking.

[00:52:22] Steven Stack: Yeah, I'm just gonna dive in on multiple things. So first off, I believe that when building wealth and thinking about passing wealth down to children, that really a lot of the dynamic is if we pass down wealth without equipping them or helping them be in a position to have the character to be able to.

Maintain it and, build on it and grow on it. I believe that we are actually giving them a curse because we are giving them more resources to do harm to themselves than others with. Cause if you think about it, if you've got a lot of resources, but you have no character, there's no telling where you will end up or the people that you'll harm or manipulate or abuse or put yourself in a bad situation too, whether it be talking about from it, it doesn't, it could just be stuff like substance abuse, like it doesn't have to be something super illicit, but just putting yourself in a harmful space.

But it could be from there all the way to, obviously if you are being more of a predator towards other people. , but now you have more resources. We know that it's clear in our society that we we're more favorable towards people who have more and have less accountability for people who have more.

So the way I've always looked at wealth and building and thinking about children is oftentimes parents only focus on giving their kids what they didn't have. And my thing is, let's also be mindful to give them the things that we did have. So if you grew up in a loving home man, make sure that they experience some of that, all the laughter, the creativity.

When you had to figure it out of saying, Okay, I don't want you to have the pressure of getting it out of the mud, but there is a beauty to you having to think and just figure stuff out. So just trying to foster environments for things like that to happen, to build resiliency. And yet you'll see other and I don't even wanna put this to other cultures, you'll just say wealthy people that have been around, seen black people do Latina Asian, so on and so forth, where they'll have things set up in a way that their kids have to do certain things to unlock different resources.

And hey, we want you to have some discipline. Again not going to the extreme of saying, Hey I don't want you to experience having, excess cuz I didn't, I don't I don't, I think that's a faulty way to look at it. But helping to structure things to where they can push through some resistance.

For the people who don't know me that well, the reason why I was late, I was doing like doing some exercise. Part of getting stronger is you have to push through the resistance. That is how you get strong is there is resistance that is pushing against you. So we don't want the next generation to have a frictionless life because then they will find their way back to poverty.

But just trying to figure out space. And I'm not saying that any of us have it, figure it out, but at least moving in that direction. The last thing I'll say which when I first had my hand up is this idea, and I believe it's true unfortunately, that some of the attitudes around equating the black experience to just struggle is that unfortunately there, there's too many of us.

Not saying it's the majority, I don't pretend to know what the number is, but there's too much of a sentiment of looking at other black people and saying, I don't think they deserve to be wealthy. I don't think they are worthy of wealthy. Because they may personally feel like they aren't worthy of wealth versus when I see black people winning, it brings joy to my heart.

I'm happy for them. I'm always thinking about, man, I wonder what their story is for how they got there. What was it, was it a more simple traditional path? Was it built into their family? Were they the ones that changed the trajectory of their family tree? Which unfortunately we have too many of those stories.

Like I've said this over and over again, but you guys haven't heard me say it in this space, is I'm like, Man, we got enough rags to richest stories, man. I want to hear some smooth transfer or well stories. Hey, my grandpa, he was doing his thing and then my parents were doing their thing and I rolled right into the thing that they were already doing and I built on it.

I wanna see more of those, not discounting the rags to richer stories, cuz I'm like, Man, those are still phenomenal. They make for great books, great movies, inspirational people that I've met, but I'm not gonna discount a story of people who we saw Smooth Transfer of Wealth. Again, if we say we really are about that generational wealth life, then let's be about it.

I believe we are. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, man, like I, I love to hear stories of people where they're like, Hey man, the way I started, I ain't have no debt when I came out of outta school. Be like, Man, it's awesome. And not look at it as less than that their parents have the foresight to help them position, to walk across the stage where they didn't owe the school, or Fannie Mae or Sally Mae, I'm sorry.

Whatever the name is, you know what I'm talking about. So that's what I'd like to see. But I do think there's been a lot of internalizing of believing, Hey, we're not worthy of wealth, or who does this person think they are? Because they have more than what I do. And my last thought here is just that I've always viewed myself from a place of, that I would walk with kings or royalty without losing the common touch.

And that would be the thing that I would hope for. The next generation and the generation after that for me would be that kind of mentality that says, Hey, what makes me royal is how I love and serve other people, not how many people can serve me. And for those who I'm new to you, some of my story, didn't get, I wasn't on earlier to do like the intros and all that kind of stuff, but the quick and dirty of my story, I'm a hundred percent debt free.

Made my first million, became a millionaire at age 31. My birthday's actually later this month, so I'm getting closer to the four row, but not, but I still got some space in between that, for those that wonder, I'll be 37. So I'm passionate about this. Because I wanna see people win. I want the, just the face of what wealth looks like to be different.

That you can be very wealthy and not be a jerk. Be generous with your time. Be thoughtful, be intentional be looking to be generous and just help others. So I appreciate y'all letting me share a little bit.

[01:00:53] Tiffany Grant: Yes. Thank you for that. That was very it gave us some things to think about, I'm sure.

And then Kaari.

[01:01:02] Camari Ellis: Yeah. Thanks for that, Steve. That was dope. Was very dope. The piece about walking amongst Kings was really touching. Cause Malcolm X is probably my, one of my biggest heroes. And his thing was always to be on hundred 25th Street teaching on the soapbox and the very next day be at Harvard lecturing.

And so he could basically transverse from the super rich and affluent down to the everyday people. And I think that should be a goal or something that has admired all of us, in my opinion. So kudos for that. The only thing I was gonna say outside of that was this thing about struggle is really deep.

Because a lot of us, again, I'll say it again, just from a gross macro perspective, yes, I would say, I hate saying black synonymous would struggle, but yes, we are struggling from a macro level, but on an individual level, a lot of us use that struggle as a crutch. And we don't live, we don't live up to our God given abilities and talents and oftentimes shortchange or rob ourselves of the potential that we could actually aspire to.

So again, I think it's very nuanced, it's very difficult, depending upon, different backgrounds, educational levels, exposure. You wanna get different results for different people.

[01:02:29] Tiffany Grant: For sure, for sure. Now, before we wrap up, is there anyone in the audience or what have you, that wants to add to the conversation? Feel free to request as a speaker and we'll get you up here. And I'll just take a few moments for that.

[01:02:47] Rahkim Sabree: And I just wanna piggyback on that too, if you don't wanna add to the conversation today, but you want.

Introduce yourself to this community that we're building so that you can be a part of conversations in the future. Definitely feel free to do that as.

[01:03:01] Tiffany Grant: All right. Well, I think we're good. So with that being said, thank you all so much for joining us tonight and taking time to provide energy to this space because we can only do it with everybody involved. And so I appreciate you. We appreciate you for coming in and sharing space with us. So we do this every Monday night at 9:00 PM f Space for black money Talk, where as you can see, we dig deep into black money.

Issues, concerns and things of that nature in our community and have these open conversations, transparent conversations to get the talk started. I think this talk has definitely got gotten my brain going on a few things personally, and I'm like, I need to dive in a little deeper and research a little more of this stuff.

Maybe even publish some research on this stuff because, it really has me thinking deeply and the programming is real, but if we are aware. Of what the programming is and we can actively circumvent it as best we can. So that's what the purpose of these talks are for is to just get new and unique ideas out there that are different than our, norms.

So like I said, please join us every Monday night, 9:00 PM on Twitter. This will also be replayed on the Money Talk with Tiff podcast. I do the replays every Monday. So next Monday you'll hear this one, and we look forward to seeing you all next week for another Black Money Talk. And we shall see what we talk about.

But thank you all so much for coming on, and we appreciate you. Have a good night.

[01:04:48] Intro/Outro: Thank you for listening, joining and being a part of the Money Talk with T Podcast this week. You can check Tip Out every Thursday for a New Money Talk podcast, but if you just can't wait until next week, you can listen to previous podcast episodes at Money Talk with or follow tiff on all social media platforms.

Add money, Talk with the team. Until next time. Spend wise by spending less than you make a word to the money-wise is always sufficient.

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