business & entrepreneurship money management podcasts Jan 27, 2022

Luke Van Der Veer sits down with Tiffany to break down the basics of SEO, identifying niches in the market and how "Rank and Rent" helps businesses attract leads. 

About Our Guest

Luke Van Der Veer used to have a job with General Electric in HR and has since quit his job with the Rant and Rent portfolio he has put together.

Luke Van Der Veer came up with a concept called “Rank and Rent”. The premise is simple, build a local service website and get it ranking high in search engines. Once you get it ranking, you charge a local business a monthly fee for all the leads that come through the website.

You own the asset, and because you get to own it, you get to rent it out for passive income. This creates a residual monthly income for you!

Connect with Luke

Website: https://www.digitalrealestatecoaching.com/freetraining

Email: [email protected]

Connect with Tiffany on Social Media

Facebook: Money Talk With Tiff
Twitter: @moneytalkwitht
Instagram: @moneytalkwitht
LinkedIn: Tiffany Grant



[00:00:00] Intro/Outro: You know what it is? That's right. It's time to talk money with your money nerd and financial coach. Now tighten those purse strings and open those ears. It's the Money Talk with Tiff podcast. 

[00:00:15] Tiffany Grant: Hey everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Money Talk with Tiff podcast. Today I have Luke Van Der Veer on the line, and I'm excited to have him on because we're gonna be talking about something that's pretty interesting for me personally. Anyway, and hopefully you can glean. Information off of it as well. 

So Luke Van Der Veer received an MBA in Human Resources, so we have that in common. And right out of grad school, he landed a highly sought after position at General Electric as a benefits analyst. Long story short, he realized the nine to five was not for him. Um, so he started trying different things. He tried affiliate marketing, network marketing, Facebook advertising, and even selling products on eBay and Amazon. 

And although he got one of his side hustles, 35,000 a month, which is tremendous. Um, he was still working seven days a week and reinvesting the money to grow his business. Then he stumbled upon rank and rent seo, which is what we're here to talk about today. And so I'm so excited to see you and to talk to you this morning. 


[00:01:15] Luke Van Der Veer: Thank you for having me, Tiffany.  

[00:01:17] Tiffany Grant: Absolutely. So, um, just a preface, Luke is on the West coast, so this is super early for him, so I appreciate him joining me so early in the morning on the weekend, . All right, so let's just jump right into it. I guess first of all, what is Rank and Rent SEO?  

[00:01:34] Luke Van Der Veer: Okay, so rank and run SEO is essentially identifying a profitable niche in the market, building a website to take advantage of. 

Getting that website to the top of Google or any research engine really to take advantage of the visibility that you get from being at the top of the search engine and that generates traffic. Now you send that traffic, those customers to a business owner and charge 'em a fee, and that's how you get paid from it. 

[00:02:01] Tiffany Grant: Ah, nice, Nice. So with this business, how many different like niches have you? Been in .  

[00:02:10] Luke Van Der Veer: Oh geez. I've been keeping track of this. So, 73. Um, but there's thousands, thousands and thousands.  

[00:02:17] Tiffany Grant: Wow. So, Okay. Okay. So a lot of us are like, okay, first of all, how do we rank on the first page of Google? Not even counting. 

You've done it so many different times. So I think one of my first questions are, What are your like tips just to get on the first page? Cuz I mean, even if we go to Rank and rent seo or we just have our own business, I think that's like everybody's goal. Um, so what tips do you have when it comes to SEO and ranking on the first page since you've done it so many times? 

[00:02:48] Luke Van Der Veer: Yeah, for sure. I would say to focus on the things that Google cares about the most. Um, if you think about Google as a search engine, the main thing that they wanna do is give people exactly what they want. So relevance. because Google gets paid off advertising. So you know, you use Google for free. You could hop on anytime, search anything you want, and you're gonna get some result. 

But say, you know, one day you searched for plumber and a bunch of images of pink elephants came up, you'd be like, What the heck is going on with this? I'll never go into this search engine again. This thing doesn't work at all. Right? You'd never use it again. Right? But if it gives you exactly what you want, you keep coming back and that's what they need. 

Because advertisers want to use the platform because there are so many people that are on it. They know that their potential customers are there using that search engine. So Google's focus is always delivering exactly what the customer wants. And if you focus on delivering what Google likes, which is great content to serve to their customers, you can't really be wrong. 

So the, the keys are really great content. And then just building up trust for your website in Google and trust again, comes down to content. It comes down to having other websites on the internet, essentially, like vouch for you. Um, almost like a, a friend would do, right? Like Luke's a great guy, you know, you should talk to him about. 

Whatever websites do the same thing. If you have a powerful website, maybe like a news station or you know, a website that's already trusted mm-hmm. , and they link to you. They're sharing a little bit of their trust and authority with you, and they're essentially vouching for you online. And Google sees that and they see that little bit of authority. 

They push you higher in the search results because now you've gained a little bit of their trust and true. And those are the two main things. 

[00:04:47] Tiffany Grant: Interesting interest. So let's stick to the first one really quick. So content, right? So being that you've been in 73 different markets, are you constantly writing different things on, you know, different articles on different things to keep the content going? 

Or how are you doing that? Um, you know, as you work on each website that you're, you're hosting. Yeah,  

[00:05:08] Luke Van Der Veer: so initially it was me doing all the, the research and trying to figure out what to do, and my process for that was essentially figure out what market looked like. It would be low competition, where I thought I would be able to make some money if I generated leads in that niche, and I would look at all the top competitors in the space. 

And see what they were talking about on their websites. You know, what are the services and products they offer? What are the things they're talking about on their blogs? And I would kind of take a combination of all the different things they're talking about and cover everything on mine to make myself like the Wikipedia of that space. 

I wanna be the go-to source so that everybody who's searching anything for that niche would come straight to me. And when Google sees all of that content, That I have it all, and people don't have to jump to 25 different websites to find what they need. That gives me an advantage, right? They're gonna push me a little bit higher, It's gonna make it easier for me to gain some trust and push my website to the top. 

So I'm always doing that research and then writing the content app. More recently, you know, I've done this so many times that I have a lot of these websites rented out to business owners already. So I've hired virtual assistants from other countries and things to do the writing for me. So now the process is more like, I want to do this niche. 

Here's the, the niche I'd like you to write about. And they'll do the, the process that I've trained them to do. Hmm,  

[00:06:37] Tiffany Grant: interesting, interesting, interesting. And see, like recently I just got into SEO for my website, like literally recently. So this is like 200 articles later, and I'm like, Ooh, SEO, right? , Yeah. 

Now here's the thing, right? So we have. Where Google takes what we write and you know, we have to make sure we have good content. And one thing that I've heard is that SEO takes, you know, at least six months to a year at least, to get, you know, to get the traction and momentum going. Is that what you found? 

Is every website, like all 73, um, having to do the six months to a year thing or how is that working? Oh  

[00:07:17] Luke Van Der Veer: man, there's hundreds of sites, 73 different niches. Some of those niches are really great, so you build out more because it's easier. But, um, yeah, the ranking timeline, I would say 90 days is probably the average. 

Um, it tends to be easier niches. I, I don't wanna focus on something that's extremely difficult because it'll take longer to rank and you can find some. Like what I call low hanging fruit, um, niches all over the country with, you know, markets that are maybe 50,000 to four, 500,000 range. Um, And some of the niches tend to be like contractors might be a little bit easier. 

If you think about, you know, competition. Maybe like uh, a plumber or a masonry expert versus a lawyer. The lawyer is probably gonna have much better marketing. They're spending thousands of dollars online for their marketing already, whereas the person doing concrete or masonry, that's kind of a blue collar thing, they're probably not spending as much. 

It might be a family type business. You have a better chance of having less competition over there. So I usually opt for doing those type of niches in smaller markets. And because of that, it should only take 90 days, might take four months. Occasionally it'll take half a year. Um, but once in a while you get something that takes two, three weeks. 

So I don't have to, uh, Do a ton of stuff. It's just, uh, a very simple process and I won't have  

[00:08:46] Tiffany Grant: to wait a year. All right. So with that being said, here's my question. So after you build the website, it's already ranking on first page of Google, you know, everybody's finding you. Um, how do you find the people that are willing to pay for that? 

[00:09:02] Luke Van Der Veer: There's, there's a lot of different ways to do it. Um, you know, originally one of the things I would do is I would simply just do a Google search for whatever that niche was. So, say I was doing, you know, plumbing in Seattle where I am right now, um, I would just go 10, 12 pages back in the search results. 

And I would find a company that's sitting there, because if they're in that spot in the search results, they're not getting traffic from organic Google searches. It's just not happening. You know, studies have shown that people really just go to the first page, and beyond that, the, the volume of people that go, you know, 2, 3, 4 pages deep is almost nobody. 

So, um, just statistically, those people would have much less business coming in, at least organically. So if I talk to those people and I can convince them to simply just try some leads from me, even if I'm, you know, giving them some for free, it's gonna make a tremendous difference in their business. I had, um, one of the first people I ever sent leads to was a tree service, and he was on page seven or eight mm-hmm. 

so nobody was seeing his website. It was a horrible website too. and, And I sent him some leads and we started working together, and over the next year, his income went from $70,000 annually, as you know, a single guy doing his own tree service. Just him? No, no other contractors or employees to over 320 grand. 

He was still doing it by himself. Some of the jobs that were coming in though were so big that he couldn't handle it on his own. And he's like, Well, you know, I don't know what to do with these. So I just like let him go? And I was like, No. Use this as an opportunity to make more money. Do you know other tree services in the area that are bigger? 

And he's like, Well, yeah, of course. I'm like, Okay. So make some friends with them, send them the commercial work that you can't do, and ask for a cut. Maybe you can get 10%, 15% off the top, you can generate leads off the leads that I'm generating for you. Right. And you started sending them to another, you know, commercial outfit in the area and taking a cut off. 

Yeah, so he was well over 350 grand just from, you know, tree work and then he could kind of do what he wants with his family. He's now hired more people so he could take more time off. Mm-hmm. it, uh, you can really change somebody's life just using that method and if you don't want to, you know, do that type of method, you could also go for people who've already paid for leads. 

Mm. You know, if you think of, um, a good place to look as Groupon, right? There's a lot of service owners and business owners on Groupon or heavily discounting their services just to get customers. In the door, you'll see services that are two, $300. For 30, 40, 50 bucks. And those business owners don't want to discount their services that much. 

They just believe that that's the way to get customers. So, you know, if you now approach them and you say, Hey, I have all these people, and you can charge your full price, you don't have to do that anymore. That's a great opportunity that they're gonna jump back.  

[00:12:03] Tiffany Grant: Absolutely. Now granted, I love a Groupon because I love to save money 

Um, but that is so true, like a lot of people think, okay, and including myself, Like I discount my services sometimes, um, and I'm like, Hey, you know, just to see if I can bring people in. I haven't done it in a while. But the crazy part is a lot of business owners think that's the way to get people through the door. 

And what I have learned in my experience is, I've put on free stuff and nobody showed up . So really I feel like that whole thought process is flawed. And so to see someone like yourself where you do all the hard work when it comes to like SEO and getting on the first page and getting all the names and emails and whatever data you collect and then passing it over to the business owners that maybe struggle with seo, um, and say, Hey. 

This is a lead that I got from my website and pretty much sharing the wealth. It's kind of like a Robin Hood method. I feel like ,  

[00:13:04] Luke Van Der Veer: right? Yeah. Yeah. If you can send some, some value in advance before you ask for something. It's the rule of reciprocity. People feel obligated to, you know, help you out cause you provided them with value. 

Mm-hmm. . Right? If you're thinking, if you think about what that happens to the business owner all day long, they're. Thousands of emails and cold calls from all these businesses that want their money. They're asking, you know, thousands of dollars. I want to, I. I want you to pay me two, $3,000. I'll get your website to number one six months from now and you'll have all this great business and the business owner sitting there thinking, Yeah, okay, you know, it's great that you can tell me you're gonna get me there, but what happens if that doesn't happen? 

I just paid you, you know, $12,000 and now I'm in the same spot. Then what? Right. You gonna give me the money back and then no company's gonna do that, . So you are, you're flipping the script now. You're saying, you know, here, let me prove that I can actually do what I'm telling you I can do. And, um, Then you can pay me. 

[00:14:02] Tiffany Grant: Right. I love that. I love that. And then I also love your idea of if you don't have the capacity to just go ahead and give it to somebody else and just take a commission from that. I'm like, Genius, um, . So how do you get people to pay you without being good at sales? Because I know personally I am horrible at sales. 

Like when I used to work for like a call center, they'd be like, Oh, please try to upsell. I'll ask the person if they say no. Okay. Well thank you. Have a good day. ,  

[00:14:34] Luke Van Der Veer: it's all about the effort. , I, uh, you know, initially that was one of the things I was the most worried about because all the other types of marketing I had done, it was always something aside from network marketing, it was always something behind a computer. 

Mm-hmm. . So I didn't have to do, you know, cold calling or any of that type of stuff. . Um, so that was something that initially worried me and I was like, I, I just don't wanna get on the phone. It's gonna be such an awkward conversation, and I was super worried about that. But in doing it, I found that it's really not that bad just because I know how valuable it is and how much people need it, so it's easier to get on the phone. 

And after you try it a few times, you see how the conversation usually goes and people are more than excited to just take some free leads. So one of the things, um, I've done is use our call tracking system to my advantage. It has something called a whisper message. So you can type out a message and it will read it in essentially a robot voice, or you could even prerecord your own voice and it delivers it to the business owner before. 

They even pick up and call. So for example, you dial the number, the business owner answers the phone and they hear whatever you want it to say. And it could be, you know, um, plumber, lead from Luke, you know, free lead from. The marketing guy, you can have it say anything you want mm-hmm. before it connects, whatever that customer is. 

So I'll typically, you know, call up a business owner and say, Hey, listen, I'm, I'm building a website in your market and I'm going to be generating leads for this niche. Um, and, you know, in the meantime, I don't do whatever that niche is, right? I, I'm not a plumber, so I'm gonna have all these people who want plumbing and I'm not a plumber, so I wanna make sure these customers are served. 

You know, before this website's rented out, um, to a local business. So for the next, you know, couple weeks, do you want some free referrals? And everybody says yes to that, of course, . And you don't have to do it for a few weeks. You can do it for a few days, few weeks, whatever you wanna do. Um, I typically just do a few days if I'm going to. 

Sell the, you know, rent out the website later on. If I do it initially, or maybe I'll just send 'em free leads for now, not gonna ask for anything. Or maybe later on if the website's already generating a ton of leads and I'm thinking about, you know, renting it out and charging a fee sooner. I might just say, Hey, why don't you try the website out for a few days? 

I'd love to send you some leads. You can test it.  

[00:17:02] Tiffany Grant: Mm gotcha. Gotcha. This is a great idea. Um, , because I'm over here like, you know, instead of like typical seo, so like you have clients and you know you're working on their websites and things like that. This is where you have the website, but like you said, you're renting it out to different people, so there's different income streams instead of that one income stream. 

So that, this sounds very, very interesting. So, With that being said, oh, and one thing I wanna add, what I took from that sales like about sales is that you lead with the value first. You don't try to oversell it, like you're not like, Oh yeah, I got this and blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, look, I got a website , and I'm getting leads, but I don't do this and so I need people that I can pass on these people to. 

And then when you lead with that, instead of, um, You know, insert any sales call here where it's just like they're just pressuring you and pressuring you and pressuring you. It's like, okay, the ball is in your court. What do you wanna do with it? If you say no, ok cool, I'll move on to someone else. And so you're already establishing your value, and so that's what makes the sale easier. 

So genius, Um, . All right. So if anybody was interested in finding out more about you or what services you provide, Or maybe even getting into rank and rent seo. Maybe we have some SEO people listening. How would they be able to find you? Luke?  

[00:18:36] Luke Van Der Veer: Easiest way to find me is go to website rental coaching.com and uh, just watch the free webinar. 

I've recorded a webinar that walks through the entire process from, you know, finding a niche, building a site. Turning it into an income so you can, you know, replace a nine to five job or generate leads for your own business. So if there's any interest in, you know, learning that process and seeing how you can create a passive income stream with it, website rental.com is the easiest way to get in touch. 

[00:19:02] Tiffany Grant: Awesome, awesome. And it's free , like you're giving away all these gems for free. That's awesome. Especially if there's people that are like, Hey, maybe I wanna start this as a side hustle or a part-time gig. There's really no, um, you know, money that you have to put in if you just go watch the webinar. So I'll make sure I have all of those links down in the show notes. 

Thank you so much, Luke, for imparting this knowledge on us. And like I said, this is what I love about the show is that I get to talk to people about what they do and it's stuff that I or my audience may have never even thought about. And so I love having the exposure on the show. So thank you so much for talking about the seo, um, rank and rent seo, cuz I feel like it was super. 

[00:19:47] Luke Van Der Veer: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.  

[00:19:49] Tiffany Grant: All right. Thank you. Have a good one.  

[00:19:52] Intro/Outro: Thank you for listening, joining and being a part of the Money Talk with Tiff podcast this week. You can check Tip Out every Thursday for a New Money Talk podcast, but if you just can't wait until next week, you can listen to previous. 

Podcast episodes at Money Talk with t.com or follow TIFF on all social media platforms at Money Talk with T until next time. Spend wise, by spending less than you make a word to the money wise is always sufficient. 


Need further help?

Book a 15-minute consultation call!

I'm Ready

Stay connected with news and updates!

Join our mailing list to receive the latest news and updates from our team.
Don't worry, your information will not be shared.

We hate SPAM. We will never sell your information, for any reason.